Independent driving

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Independent driving

Post by The Boss on Mon Sep 06, 2010 10:43 pm

The DSA web site as eve tells us what is supposed to happen, but the hearsay and rumours are not telling exactly the same story, as is the apparent local differences.

Are we now just playing the waiting game ?
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Re: Independent driving

Post by evondoll on Mon Sep 06, 2010 10:51 pm

Yep a waiting game for sure. The trials were not great.......infact the first tests to go out are still trials imo Mad
After a quick read of the reports of both trials so far, there seems far too many unanswered questions and I can't belive its going ahead at this stage No

A few people seem to be looking forward to it. I think its a disaster waiting to happen affraid
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Re: Independent driving

Post by The Boss on Mon Sep 06, 2010 10:57 pm

There seems to be a good understanding of what is likely but nothing concrete.
Will it be both "Follow signs to" and "2-3 instructions" or a choice of either, then is the examiners choice or the pupils choice ?

Too many unanswered questions.
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Re: Independent driving

Post by evondoll on Mon Sep 06, 2010 11:07 pm

Test centre manager here said she has 6 routes for multiple directions, 4 routes for follow the signs and another 4 routes that will be a combination.

Examiners choice. Unless pupil has special needs, the pupil is allowed some say in what would be easier for them (I feel a sudden increase in dyslexic test candidates lol).
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Re: Independent driving

Post by Lily-Anne on Mon Sep 06, 2010 11:09 pm

The DSA paper said that following signs showed more faults, spoken direction came second where visual diagrams were slightly better. It is a trail overall though, as they need to see evidence that is has helped reduce road death in the 17-25 age group.
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Re: Independent driving

Post by Dale Brooks CEO on Tue Sep 07, 2010 7:58 am

At our local ADI meeting recently I raised the issue that during the trial the pass rate plummetted to 18% I had read somewhere.

I was told the pass rate did drop but not to that extent.

The cynic in me is telling me the DSA would love the pass rate to drop.

Dale
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Re: Independent driving

Post by evondoll on Tue Sep 07, 2010 3:15 pm

Dale you read about the 18% pass rate in the DSA's own publication! It was after the first trial. They even wrote that they expected the pass rate to drop to between 13-18%

In the second 'trial' they decided (for no explained reason) not to mark the trial candidates on a pass/fail basis. They just stated they expect no significant fall in pass rates.........how they know this without a proper trial is anyones guess Mad
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Re: Independent driving

Post by Tom McD on Tue Sep 07, 2010 3:29 pm

I'm heading to an ADI meeting tonight, which Bill Garety is also due to attend to talk about this very thing.

I'll report back if anything of interest is said, although I suspect that it'll all be b#llsh~t and waffle silent

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Re: Independent driving

Post by evondoll on Tue Sep 07, 2010 3:54 pm

Tom McD wrote:I'm heading to an ADI meeting tonight, which Bill Garety is also due to attend to talk about this very thing.

I'll report back if anything of interest is said, although I suspect that it'll all be b#llsh~t and waffle silent


See I knew there were secret meetings no one was telling me about Crying or Very sad
Take it this is a member only thing?
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Re: Independent driving

Post by Tom McD on Tue Sep 07, 2010 4:09 pm

It's a Franchise meeting Evon - If I could sneak you in I would lol! !!
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Re: Independent driving

Post by evondoll on Tue Sep 07, 2010 4:24 pm

You would think the dsa would have a meeting at ALL test centres open to all ADI's.

The amount of adi's i meet at test centres who just don't have a clue about what is happening is unreal.
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Re: Independent driving

Post by evondoll on Tue Sep 07, 2010 4:25 pm

Tom McD wrote:It's a Franchise meeting Evon - If I could sneak you in I would lol! !!

Yeah they would never notice my car parked outside lol!
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Re: Independent driving

Post by Admin on Tue Sep 07, 2010 4:32 pm

Most test centres run monthly surgeries, and to be honest they have always made it available for you to knock and arrange a chat with the SE. They like an interest from ADIs and PDI's.

There are ADI's out there who are not up to date, but there are even more who think they are up to date and are not.

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Re: Independent driving

Post by evondoll on Tue Sep 07, 2010 4:43 pm

Admin wrote:Most test centres run monthly surgeries, and to be honest they have always made it available for you to knock and arrange a chat with the SE. They like an interest from ADIs and PDI's.

Maybe most, but deffo not my local test centre. There has been 1 surgery this year (unfortunatly I didn't see the notice for it until after). The TCM isn't in every day and isn't in to having random chats with us meer ADI's either Neutral In all the time I've been there, I've spoken with her once and at no other time have I seen her speaking with any ADI's. Same goes for all the examiners.

If Tom gets a chance to speak to Bill this eve, can you ask him to make sure the ADI's working from Shieldhall get some kind of meeting organised??
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Re: Independent driving

Post by Lily-Anne on Tue Sep 07, 2010 5:46 pm

I'm really surprised there is so little tc support. When I lived in Essex it was encouraged, and the SE, used to hang around the tc on Friday afternoon, sharing coffee and a chat with everyone. When he retired they could not fill his role for some reason, and it was still vacant when I moved from there.
Have you asked your national association rep to investigate?

LA
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Re: Independent driving

Post by evondoll on Tue Sep 07, 2010 6:36 pm

Lily-Anne wrote:
Have you asked your national association rep to investigate?

I've no idea who that is confused

Oh and there are no notices allowed at the test centre either Mad
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Re: Independent driving

Post by Lily-Anne on Tue Sep 07, 2010 7:32 pm

Alan Hamilton is the DIA rep for Scotland, maybe you should contact him. Sounds like it's not much fun at your tc..

LA
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Re: Independent driving

Post by StephenL on Tue Sep 07, 2010 8:13 pm

Last Friday we had a surgery at our test centre, they were going to discuss ID but I had a pupil on test so needed to be present for the debrief. While the meeting was going on I spoke to one of the other DEs and he said the a large number of DEs are very, very cynical of ID, they don't believe it will raise the pass rate, it may lower it. They don't really know (according to him) what is going to happen on 4th October. They are expecting tests to over run, lots of complaints, lots of walkbacks and pass rates to plummit.

He did say that the ID "routes" are going to be based on current test routes, so the DEs will know where they are meant to go, but on the downside for us is our new SE/TCM has been told to reduce the current test routes from 20 to 15 and we don't know which he's going to cut (not that I teach test routes).

We don't have an association as such in MK, we did try to resurrect it but most of the ADIs around here can't be bothered. So most of the info I've gathered is from the DSA (crap) and from forums.
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Re: Independent driving

Post by Lily-Anne on Tue Sep 07, 2010 8:23 pm

The trouble with a new phenomonen is the lack of clarity for everyone. The DSA paper says that the original problems have been ironed out - hmmm, and that the decision to let pupils choose their mano and how to do it has been suspended for now - double hmmm.

Ian is your national DIA Rep.

LA
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Re: Independent driving

Post by Dale Brooks CEO on Tue Sep 07, 2010 11:24 pm

One of my pupils was on test a couple of weeks ago and asked the DE what his thoughts were on the ID that was coming in shortly.

His reply was "It is a load of Bollox !!"

Somehow I don't think that is towing the company line !!


Laughing Laughing
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Re: Independent driving

Post by Tom McD on Wed Sep 08, 2010 5:48 am

evondoll wrote:If Tom gets a chance to speak to Bill this eve, can you ask him to make sure the ADI's working from Shieldhall get some kind of meeting organised??

Sorry Evon.......only just read this or else I'd have asked Bill tonight on your behalf Sad

The presentation on ID was quite interesting.

One of the ADI's was concerned about the diagrams and how they would be used as some of his pupils (in his opinion) would react like a bunny in the headlights - they would look but they wouldn't see the big picture as such. We were told that the diagrams are to be used in a "small number of tests" only and more often than not if the candidate is dyslexic. The ID will last for approx 10 mins and in that time they may use a sequence of 2-3 diagrams - this will be time dependant. One diagram may incorporate a journey of a couple of miles - so it's not just a case of a couple of a couple of local left and right turns. For those candidates that are not dyslexic, they will be asked to follow the road signs for a specific place. Depending on the specific test route - they may well use "follow the signs for...." and a diagram to negotiate a tricky part of the route. If at any time that the candidate is unsure or forgets - they can ask for clarification, BUT they have heard rumours that some unscrupulous Instructors are going to be telling their learners just to ask about every turn - if a pattern appears with any instructors learners presented for test - they will deal with this accordingly.

Another ADI was concerned that as they are dropping one of the manoeuvres, that they would become "stricter" on the marking of the remaining manoeuvre. He was told that the DSA's way of assessing a manoeuvre would not change and that in general an ADI generally commands a higher level of competency from a pupil than an examiner does - so no change there.

Test routes have been amended to suit ID - would neither confirm nor deny that these new routes will be published or not.

His overall take on it was if we teach a client to think for themselves, then ID should pose no problem whatsoever........I suppose we'll just have to wait and see.

If I remember anything else that was said I'll edit this post later.

Regards,

Tom
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Re: Independent driving

Post by Stuart McCall on Thu Sep 09, 2010 11:31 pm

We must be spoilt up here but our TCM is brill, never has a closed door and will pop into the waiting room for a chat when the tests are out, has official surgery days on a Friday.

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Re: Independent driving

Post by sandybank on Fri Sep 10, 2010 8:37 am

From what i understand, DSA are not going to release any details of the ID test routes. So, a back door way of getting us to sit in on tests if you ask me. Also, if a test candidate makes a wrong turn, gets off route, asks the DE to repeat the instructions, they pupil won't fail the test.

All this taken into account, what is ID in aid of then ? If they can't fail for getting it wrong, what is the point of it ?

I think that examiner got it right, it's a load of bo**ox

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Re: Independent driving

Post by StephenL on Tue Sep 14, 2010 1:21 pm

OK just spoke to our ex-SE, existing test routes are going to be or have been modified for ID, he used one of them on my candidate just now (without doing ID but following the route) and timed what would be the ID bit.

4 minutes.

He said they haven't had any of the maps yet, most of the routes are still untested by examiners and they'll be reading them off sheets as the test is done. He said to be honest he wouldn't be surprised if it didn't go ahead and if it does DEs are going to be ill prepared come the 4th. Oh joy.
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Re: Independent driving

Post by Dale Brooks CEO on Tue Sep 14, 2010 2:34 pm

Our local Assoc just been given these maps.

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Re: Independent driving

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